Talon Turbo?

[Racer 007]

What do you guys think of the 97 Talon TSI? I really like how it looks and was wondering what anybody knows about them.

[92StealthTT]

I think they look sweet! The only issue I can think of about them is the crankwalk thing. And I think they have some of the tranny probs we have (2nd gear synchro) but to a lesser extent.

Thinking of trading?

[Racer 007]

sure am

what is crankwalk?

[92StealthTT]

2nd gen turbo cars have the problem. It's caused by the crank moving horizontally in addition to rotationally. That's bad. So basically your crank is walking all over place, sometimes as much as 1/2" of play in the crank. Mitsu/Dodge refuse to accept this as a problem, thus no recall, just alot of owners buying new cranks/bearings/short blocks & whatever that high spinning crank decides to destroy in it's path (sensors, etc).

This happened to a buddy of mine this spring. He's now working on paying for a new 1st gen short block to get his up & running again without having to chance crankwalk again.

Reference material:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/walkingcrankshaft.htm

Edit: Also check any DSM board & you'll find a wealth of information on the subject.

[Munkey]

I believe crankwalk is only an issue for the MTX...the ATX's have stronger pressure plates.

[Racer 007]

yeah, but you and i both know that atx sags. what would crankwalk have to do with the pressure plate anyways?

when i was at mitsu, i asked about that problem. i guess mitsu has stated that it's not a problem like 92stealthtt had stated already. in order to avoid this problem, you would need to buy a new engine. he said that they have been redesigned. cost including everything needed.........$6000.00

[Munkey]

6000!! Good god...

Why not get a 1G? They're ugly as hell, but have a very solid engine.

[dreadie]

if you are going to go with an eclipse or what not, get a 1st gen DSM, they are bullet proof :)

[Stealthy_C]

Yep second gen talons and eclipse have the crank walk problem, but only 20% of them are expected to acctualy crank walk. So if you are thinkning about gettinge one i would get a 97-99 one some where in there, the later the better u have a less chance of it cank walking on u. Why would u want to switch? I also wanted to go with a 99 GSX, but finally i realized they are hard to come by and the STEALTH is HELL alot faster then them. MY NA keeps up with a talon Tsi. Would of passed him but we came up on a car that was in my lane way to fast. adn thnat was before we even got out of second gear. Save your money and get a TT or Vr4:car:

[Racer 007]

Originally posted by dreadie
if you are going to go with an eclipse or what not, get a 1st gen DSM, they are bullet proof :) Not exactly bulletproof but much better than the 2G engine.

[ADLER]

I really enjoyed my 95 TSi AWD, great car, but it did suffer from crank walk. Chose to trade it in as quickly as possible for the ls1 SS. Of course, it probably didn't help that i had two severe accidents in it.
I would love to own a 1G. They are great cars, and reliable.

oh, but I think the 97 Talons are really ugly. It looks like they tried to make it "sharp" as in too many lines, and not smooth.

[DJ Eric P.]

I'm lookin at this right now:

92 black pearl Talon TSI AWD

Eclipse front bumper
HKS front mount (custom)
T-66 turbo
Turbonetics Deltagate
stainless steel header
knife edge crank
Pauter rods
JE pistons
massive headporting (flow benched)
HKS cams
balanced and printed
torqueplated
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
ARP main studs
HKS headgasket
TEC II engine management
720cc inj.
MoMo steering wheel
Autopower roll bar
tan leather (good shape!)
SSR GP-O 17 X 8's all around (rare)
Koni (RACE coilovers) custom mated
Cusco strut bars front and rear
Fidanza flywheel
HKS exhaust

[The Lurker]

What kind of signs are there for crankwalk? My 97 TSI still runs pretty smooth at 78,000 miles

[ADLER]

look for it popping out of gear. for example, when I would be in 5th, I would have to hold the stick into 5th, otherwise it would pop straight out into neutral. part of the problem may have been my synchros though.

[The Lurker]

I don't get that at least not yet! hey Dj E have you decided on that 92 Talon or are you going with something else.

[DJ Eric P.]

Originally posted by The Lurker
I don't get that at least not yet! hey Dj E have you decided on that 92 Talon or are you going with something else. I'll still be getting a truck, but I'm trying to work something out to get the Talon for a toy. It's suppost to run high 10's. We'll see.

[narangdisco]

oh.. My 90 Talon Tsi still runs awesome..!!
3rd gear grinds, ..Still runs nice...
Other then that, it`s a ROCK SOILD car!!!

[smokinstorm]

Not trying to start a flame war here but I'm sure this comment will. Anyone that thinks their Stealth/3000GT will outperform the T/E/L is in for a rude awakening if you run into a modded one. Stock for stock, the T/E/L falls short of the performance of its bigger brother but the line stops there. There are quite a few T/E/L's that are faster than the fastest Stealth/3000GT out there. Maybe this is an extreme example for the T/E/L side but look at John Shepherd's car. It runs in the street class and is occasionally driven on the street. I know it's run a 9.35 @ 152+. Who's got a Stealth or 3000GT that will just spank this car? Anybody?



I also wanted to go with a 99 GSX, but finally i realized they are hard to come by and the STEALTH is HELL alot faster then them. MY NA keeps up with a talon Tsi.

I own a 93 ES and also a 90 GSX and GST. My GST ran 84+ mph in the 1/8th with almost no mods. My Stealth now only runs 75. It's no contest between the two. I love my Stealth, don't get me wrong, but NA guys saying that they kept up with and were faster than turbo T/E/L's make me somewhat suspicious. That's just my experience with them.

[DJ Eric P.]

That 9 sec car is not a daily driver and gutted to hell. Yes they can be made faster than 3K's/S's, but so can mini vans. Stock for stock they can't touch us (at least VR4's/TT's). There are very few daily driven ones that can beat them, I've certainly have never lost to one. If Matt M were to gutt his Stealth like those 9 sec cars I'm sure he would be in the 9's also. Our aftermarket scks compared to them too and is a lot more expensive. I'll take a VR4/TT over a Talon/Eclipse any day, but they are very good platforms to build a fast 1/4 car. Matter of fact I'm looking at a '92 Talon to buy now. I personally respect any car that is fast (minivan or not :D).

Not a flame just my .02

[smokinstorm]

But until he does, guess who's a second and a half faster. And, yes there are still many other T/E/L's that are running faster than the fastest Stealth or 3000GT. BTW, who's stock anymore so why does that even matter? I almost bought a TT Stealth to go along with my NA one but decided against it when I saw the limited potential compared to my GSX. Owning both a Stealth and 2 Eclipses, I think I have an unbiased opinion but those that believe the Stealth/3000GT to be all conquering will probably disagree with me. Until a modded GSX beats you out of several thousand dollars in a race, anyhow.

[The Lurker]

Well this guys car can do this and that guys car can do that blah, blah, blah fuck that what can your car do cuz 97% of the times I'll line up at a light and smoke any T/E/L. And I think thats what it boils down to for me. Smokinstorm you should sell your N/A and get a TT you might think different.:D

[DJ Eric P.]

It's not a 1.5 sec difference, Matt is running low 10's w/ full interior. He drive's his car to the track, races it and then drives it home. How many of those gutted T/E/L's do that.

"I almost bought a TT Stealth to go along with my NA one but decided against it when I saw the limited potential compared to my GSX. "

I said it before and you said it here. Our aftermarket is shit compared to them, thus higher times and more expensive mods.

Most races are from street light to street light and the VR4/TT will come out on top most of the time with a good driver.

BTW - no one said the T/E/L's are shit, so why did you have to bring it up anyways. :rolleyes:

[detpac]

Ok. Lets look at the facts. Is the T / E / L a good car, YES. I've owned both 1st and 2nd Gen Eclipses' and 1st gen Talon, and I loved all 3. I modded both Eclipses. Not many people could touch the 2nd gen Eclipse because of the mods ($$$$$) I put into it. I ran that thing almost as fast as my 3K. (12.86 @ 109) I love my 3K. Drives better, looks better(sportier) and has cost me more already than my Eclipse cost me to mod.

There are faster cars than 3K / S out there. There are faster cars than T / E / L out there. This thread is already starting to sound like the other car owners who "know someone who knows someone who knows someone who had / has the fastest escort out there. Who cares. If it is fast, great. More power to them. Chances are, the guy driving right next to you will be younger than these RACING GURU's because it takes money to go fast. It takes alot of money to go fast. Money that they probably do not have to just throw around. Therefore, not as fast as most TT's out there.

I could buy a tricycle and beat any car in the world with enough money. Get me a two-stage booster rocket engine for the space shuttle and no one would come close. So, why not just go out and buy a tricycle because you can make it faster than any object on earth? So what if it doesn't look good, or you can't drive it on the streets. It would be faster.

We need to get out of the comparisons. What you like is what you like and your opinion matters to YOU. Be proud of what you like. Be proud of what you drive. If you don't have the money that your neighbor does, who cares. If you are happy, great. I personally like both cars. I even hang out with the guy that bought the modded Eclipse. I will race him and he will race me just because we enjoy racing. He is not like most other car owners out there that will not race unless they know they can beat you. This is a fun sport. Enjoy. Why worry about something you don't have or never will have? I can beat alot of cars on the street. I bet alot of cars can beat me. I drive my car daily. I enjoy my car. WHO CARES.

[DJ Eric P.]

Thank you,

This argument got stupid before it started. Let's keep that shit over on 3SI.

It's totally true. When most people meet on the street, they might have modded cars, but only lightly modded. 9 times out of 10 a stock VR4/TT will beat a modded T/E/L, because most of the time it's just a young kid wit an exhaust, intake, lowering springs and a 800lb stereo system. :rolleyes:

Who fucking cares, now lets move on.

[The Lurker]

I want a fast tricycle!:p

[smokinstorm]

Actually, I brought it up because someone with a NA car said they were outrunning a Talon Turbo and as part of a community announcement, I thought I'd warn him against betting and losing his money in a race. I knew those that owned Stealths/3000GT's with a superiority complex would chime in just as I had predicted. And BTW, I don't have to claim to know someone that once saw someone's uncle tell a story about a guy that used to race with a fast T/E/L. I've already got one. But as I said, I own a Stealth also. Look, as we know from visiting different car boards, everybody thinks the car they own is or can be superior to everything else out there. If we didn't think like this, we'd buy the superior car, right? I'm not a young punk kid, but rather an old geezer that's trying to join the import racing movement to add some spark to the sport I love, drag racing. One more thing, when did Matt run low 10's? The fastest I saw was a high 10 @ 130ish. Please remember the intent of my reply here. I'm just trying to caution those that would jump on a T/E/L not realizing that they could potentially be more than you can handle.

[detpac]

Sorry. I got a little emotional. Have to take my Prozac again.:D

[smokinstorm]

Everything's cool. And I've come very, very close to purchasing a TT Stealth or 3000GT in the last few months. I probabaly should have bought a TT one to begin with but I was looking for a daily driver. I test drove my 93 ES and was really impressed with the way it drove. I was not impressed with the power. I'm sure a TT one would have impressed me even more and not have been out of my price range either. Live and learn. Though I'm modding my NA fairly extensively, I still want to resist the temptation to try to make a race car out of it. I wouldn't be able to resist that temptation if I had a TT model. And yes, I like the Stealth better than the Eclipses for a daily driver. It looks and handles better though it doesn't quite get the gas mileage of the GST. The Stealth surely gets more looks than the Eclipses do. I guess the stereotypical Eclipse is the Ricemobile with the 800 lb stereo system with no interest in acceleration. That's just not me. My Eclipses are strictly radio delete.

[detpac]

Gas milage in the Eclipse was great. The Stealth will always look better. And, F&F made the car every ricers dream also.

Supra
Eclipse
Volks Jetta
S2000
RX7

You will always need one of these to be IN. Cool is the only way.

[Shawn96VR-4]

Originally posted by Stealthy_C
Yep second gen talons and eclipse have the crank walk problem, but only 20% of them are expected to acctualy crank walk. So if you are thinkning about gettinge one i would get a 97-99 one some where in there, the later the better u have a less chance of it cank walking on u. Why would u want to switch? I also wanted to go with a 99 GSX, but finally i realized they are hard to come by and the STEALTH is HELL alot faster then them. MY NA keeps up with a talon Tsi. Would of passed him but we came up on a car that was in my lane way to fast. adn thnat was before we even got out of second gear. Save your money and get a TT or Vr4:car:

The NA is *NOT* "HELL alot faster" than the GSX. The NA DOHC is a mid to low 15s and I would bet that the GSX with a good driver would beat some 3000GT DOHC NAs out there. I can't see the NA keeping up with a TSI that well. With $20 in mods, the TSI will walk easily away from the DOHC NA.

[The Lurker]

I think he was trying to say the Stealth TT (which I agree) because then he goes on to say his NA can keep up to a TSI.

[smokinstorm]

Smokinstorm you should sell your N/A and get a TT you might think different


Well, I'm going to take half of your advice anyhow. I just went and looked at a modded 92 TT Stealth today up around the DC area and made a deal to purchase it. It's already got around 10K in mods so hopefully I won't go broke getting it to run like I want it to. It's got everything already modded in preparation for larger turbochargers. On the stock ones it was MUCH faster than my NA and will probably even give my GST a run for its money. The current owner drove the car for me at nearly it's potential and I must admit, I was impressed and scared to death at the same time. BTW, I'm still going to hang on to the 93 ES and use it as a daily driver but I'm finally joining the TT ranks when I go pick it up in a couple of weeks. :car: Gotta love 'em.

[The Lurker]

Hey congrats man! What mods does it have?

[smokinstorm]

Thanks. I feel like the 40 year old kid that I am. Anyhow, here's the mod list:

1992 Pearl White Stealth RT/TT with white rims with (91,xxx Miles). The car is in great condition! Very religiously maintained. The car is drivin only 1 day out of the week and is kept under a custom cover.

PLEASE help me sell this car, I have a $200 REFERRAL payment if you are able to find me a buyer for my asking price of $10K.

ALL performance mods were done and tuned at
(AAM ) Altered Atmosphere Motorsports.

Polished HKS Dual SMF intake (Dave Best)
Polished HKS SSQV + Mount brackets (myself)
Polished AAM Y-Pipe (myself)
Polished AAM Dual feed fuel rails
Polished Plenum (Dave Best)
Polished + Powdered coated plug cover (Dave Best)
Powdered coated Valve cover (Dave Best)
Aeromotive Steel braided HP Fuel lines
Aeromotive Billet fuel Pressure Regulator
Denso High flow fuel pump
Denso 550 CC injectors
APEX-I SAFC
HKS EVC IV boost controller
HKS Type 0 Turbo Timer
DNP SS Downpipe
Ceramic coated Test pipe
Tanabe full SS Dual Hyper Exhaust
Tein Coilovers with Pillowball camber plates
Cusco Rear Solid strut bar
Powerstop Rotors w/ AXXIS pads Front
H4 Headlight conversion

I offered and he accepted $9700 for it. I just want some larger turbochargers and possibly some intercooler upgrades and I'll be making pretty good power. It put down 310 at the wheels at AAM with only 1 bar of boost like this. It's strong.

[detpac]

Nice car

[smokinstorm]

I know I shouldn't even consider modding it at this point but I'm already trying to decide what size turbo to upgrade to. I'm sure 15g's are too small. What does everyone think about 18g's or some other similarly sized ones?

[The Lurker]

18g's :jawdrop: that would be kickass!!! yeah I think you will eventually want more than 15g's, good upgrade but... I went with a big 16g setup that I am still waiting on.

[smokinstorm]

I just wanna make sure I have enough power to outrun my 93 ES. Yeah, right. Actually, I'm going to ask this question of a lot of people. I obviously cannot afford to try to build the fastest TT Stealth around but I'd sure like to be able to run 12's with a soft launch and shifting it easy so as not to break parts all the time. I just don't want to purchase a turbo that's too small and have someone later tell me, "Well if you'd purchased xyz123 turbo then you'd be right where you want to be." I want to get the right ones the first time. I'm even considering 20g's as I've got experience with one of those on my GST and really like the power delivery and spool up characteristics of that turbo. With only 1.5 liters of displacement to spool each turbo vs 2.0 liters however, there may be too much lag to make these practical. Like I said, at this point I'm just asking around. I appreciate any replies and opinions. Thanks in advance.

[detpac]

20G's would be awsome but the lag would sort of hurt you initially. $8,000 is the problem with the 20G setup though. I am thinking of the 20G setup myself. The 16 or 18 G's would be good.
12's with a soft launch and easy shifting can be had with DR500's. 650s would be easier. Each are with the 14B's that are upgraded.

[smokinstorm]

I know the DR650's can be had fairly cheap but I'm going to be using Altered Atmosphere as my installer and tuner. I'm not sure how they'd feel about using their competitor's product. Still, if I cannot afford to go the 18g route, I'll have to set my goals a little lower. I'm pretty sure that a good port and polish job on the heads will make things easier to achieve. Just curious, what do you guys think about the carbon fiber driveshaft as a performance mod?

[The Lurker]

If I could afford 25g's thats what I would go with. I think lag is way overrated IMO.

[smokinstorm]

You're probably right about the lag. With AWD, I'm sure you could slip the clutch and launch aggressively enough to make boost almost as soon as you leave the line. I just don't think I'll have the money to do that if it's $8K. Just getting this car is a stretch for me with all the other playtoys I have. I need to sell my 5 liter Mustang and Vette. I'm not even going to mention the Geo.

[The Lurker]

LOL. there you go with the 10,000 you get for the geo you can go for some 25g's:p

[smokinstorm]

I think you misplaced the decimal point on the Geo. I can possibly get 10.00 for it. 10 bucks is probably pushing my luck on it.

[detpac]

Originally posted by smokinstorm
Just curious, what do you guys think about the carbon fiber driveshaft as a performance mod?

I think it was a great mod on my car. It felt alot tighter and smoother after I put it on.